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Friday, June 8. 2007
APC Back-UPS XS 1500
In the area where I reside power fluctuations and outages are numerous, so having a UPS is crucial when doing serious computer work. When my old Belkin F6C800 unit recently died a malodorous death, I decided to return to APC. Browsing the local Best Buy, I saw a Back-UPS XS 1500 LCD on the shelf with, as the name implies, an LCD display. Such a geeky feature was beyond resistance for me.I use a Back-UPS XS 1500 (without the LCD) for various machines downstairs, and it works well. The only issue with it is the noise; it beeps every time the power fluctuates with no way to turn it off. On some days when my power is particularly bad, this results in perpetual beeping every few minutes. Obviously they received many customer complaints about this, as the XS 1500 LCD has two buttons on the front; 'Power' and 'Mute'.
Update: The display readings for this device are proving to be inaccurate when tested. Do not rely on the readings from this device.
The mute button doubles as a controller for the display, with the following easily accessible with a button press:
- Load in Watts
- Output in Volts
- Output in Hz
- Input in Volts
- Event Counter
- Estimated Run Time in Minutes
With a few weeks of use, it has served my needs well. It provides me with 25 minutes to ponder whether the local power will return soon, and hours of sleeping computer time so I can use that feature with confidence. I have a PowerMac G5, two LCD displays, an alarm clock (tired of replacing backup batteries in it, I keep it plugged into my UPS now), sub woofer with speakers, and a 4 port gigabit switch plugged into it. Unlike the Belkin, it can also handle the peak startup load of my system, so if I need to transfer data to my laptop in the midst of an electron shortage, I can still get to my data.
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I still struggle with actually buying a UPS. I don't tend to do many critical things on my home machine. And comtemplating a laptop as my main computer at home will surely make it even less critical for me. Question though, now when you turn your lights off in your room do you get the ghostly glow of LCD lights all over the room?
The big LCD panel on the front turns off after a few seconds by default. The biggest glow comes from the gigabit switch, which has many green LEDs on the front which effectively drowns the other ones out at night.
I have a good idea if someone wants to make some cash. Sell little slide pictures to take in from of the LEDs at night. Then you can put yourself to sleep watching green images on the walls! ;)
I am on hold with APC tech support as I type. I purchased XS 1500, only to discover that the LCD meter does not measure the load accurately. I plugged in incandescent lightbulbs of various wattages, and the XS1500 readding was always short by 50% to 25%. A 4W transistor radio it read as zero.
APC shipped me another unit. I am testing it now, and have the same problem.
I used various wattage lightbulbs again. A fan. A radio. And then ganged various small amperage chargers and power supplies into a single power strip, and plugged to power strip into the APC as a single drawing load. I turned off my Mac Powerbook and the load dropped by 10-11 watts. At the 115v that the APC provides, that would mean the Mac was drawing .08 amps. Based on Mac specs for the Powerbook, thats less than 1/3rd measure of the Powerbook draw.
Have you ever actually taken note of whether or not the meter on your APC unit reads accurately? If not, then how can it tell you how much battery power you have, when it can't even measure the load its powering?
APC shipped me another unit. I am testing it now, and have the same problem.
I used various wattage lightbulbs again. A fan. A radio. And then ganged various small amperage chargers and power supplies into a single power strip, and plugged to power strip into the APC as a single drawing load. I turned off my Mac Powerbook and the load dropped by 10-11 watts. At the 115v that the APC provides, that would mean the Mac was drawing .08 amps. Based on Mac specs for the Powerbook, thats less than 1/3rd measure of the Powerbook draw.
Have you ever actually taken note of whether or not the meter on your APC unit reads accurately? If not, then how can it tell you how much battery power you have, when it can't even measure the load its powering?
Mark, I just bought a APC xs1300. The LCD meter did not measure the load accurately. APC sent me a replacement. Again, the meter does not measure the load correctly. I discovered I'm not the only person to encounter this major defect.
Check out this link, and you'll find another consumner detailing his on-going attempt to get the problem rectified by APC. He has been through at least 4 replacement units, still without a working LCD meter, that measures accurately.
http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/upss/m/41127497/discussions/thread/416760/
My question to you is -- Have you ever tested your meter to see if it works? Try plugging some various wattage bulbs into it -- 40w, 60w, 75w, 100w -- Does the 1500 give you a decent approximation? Or does it tell you you've got a 25w draw on a 75w bulb?
What about your laptop? You've got the amperage specs. Does the the APC match it? What about just a transistor radio? Mines 4watts. With the radio turned on, APC's meter reading is that there is no load at all!
Again, this is my second unit.
Tell me about yours? Is the meter just a marketing ploy? A 'shiney toy' to attract gadget-geeks, or does it actually work?
thanks for your input.
Check out this link, and you'll find another consumner detailing his on-going attempt to get the problem rectified by APC. He has been through at least 4 replacement units, still without a working LCD meter, that measures accurately.
http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/upss/m/41127497/discussions/thread/416760/
My question to you is -- Have you ever tested your meter to see if it works? Try plugging some various wattage bulbs into it -- 40w, 60w, 75w, 100w -- Does the 1500 give you a decent approximation? Or does it tell you you've got a 25w draw on a 75w bulb?
What about your laptop? You've got the amperage specs. Does the the APC match it? What about just a transistor radio? Mines 4watts. With the radio turned on, APC's meter reading is that there is no load at all!
Again, this is my second unit.
Tell me about yours? Is the meter just a marketing ploy? A 'shiney toy' to attract gadget-geeks, or does it actually work?
thanks for your input.
I haven't tested it with equipment in the manner you have, which I will have to try. I just moved and don't have it with me at the new location yet, but I will definitely be trying out these tests. I will post what I find upon completion.
The power draw listed in the specs for most computers is the theoretical maximum power draw. Your reading should be significantly lower than that, depending on system load, installed peripherals, etc. I would expect the tests with the light bulbs to be much more accurate though.
The power draw listed in the specs for most computers is the theoretical maximum power draw. Your reading should be significantly lower than that, depending on system load, installed peripherals, etc. I would expect the tests with the light bulbs to be much more accurate though.
Dan I look forward to hearing how your test goes.
I understand that the amps spec on my Mac Powerbook is a max draw. So lets set that aside for your test. Even so, for the record, let me fill in some details.
I used the 2.6a rating to do my calculations -- the top "theoretical max" is shown on the powerbook at 3.8. But lets stick with the 2%, since my laptop was on, with only minimal background programs idling.
I got a reading on the powerbook, from the APC meter, of 10 watts, which is .08amps at the 115v the APC puts out. That's 3% of the low end of the amerage specs. At 3.8, that would mean the APC read only 2% of total. So even if I were peripheralled up the wha-zoo, that only makes the APC meter look worse.
How could the meter read only 3% of the low end amperage specs? That can't be right: a 97% pad for peripherals, or "theoretical max"? Who manufacturers household products with that much load 'head clearance'?
Think about it -- Not even the specs on a refridgerator or airconditioner, (which are household devices that have truly "significant" maxes because of their compressor start ups) have that much "top" or "pad" rated, over and above the regular running amperage. I can't believe a little 12v DC convertor running laptop, has a 97% spike when fully loaded. Its not plausible.
You're right to say the reading should be "significantly lower". But I wouldn't characterize 97% as signficant, but rather, as implausible, and further confirmation of the pattern of faulty metering I discovered with the incandescent lightbulbs and transistor radio.
The radio, by the way, was recommended by APC tech support. I specify incandescent bulbs, since as you know, flourescent bulbs 'warm up' to peak draw, as the gas inside them ignites; while incandescents have a 'steady burn' on the filament.
At any rate, you are right to point out the variances in the laptop power draw. And I agree it is not a great device to use as a data point. But I did want you to know just how wildly outside the mark, the APC meter reading was, from anything that one could conceive as within the spectrum of variance.
I understand that the amps spec on my Mac Powerbook is a max draw. So lets set that aside for your test. Even so, for the record, let me fill in some details.
I used the 2.6a rating to do my calculations -- the top "theoretical max" is shown on the powerbook at 3.8. But lets stick with the 2%, since my laptop was on, with only minimal background programs idling.
I got a reading on the powerbook, from the APC meter, of 10 watts, which is .08amps at the 115v the APC puts out. That's 3% of the low end of the amerage specs. At 3.8, that would mean the APC read only 2% of total. So even if I were peripheralled up the wha-zoo, that only makes the APC meter look worse.
How could the meter read only 3% of the low end amperage specs? That can't be right: a 97% pad for peripherals, or "theoretical max"? Who manufacturers household products with that much load 'head clearance'?
Think about it -- Not even the specs on a refridgerator or airconditioner, (which are household devices that have truly "significant" maxes because of their compressor start ups) have that much "top" or "pad" rated, over and above the regular running amperage. I can't believe a little 12v DC convertor running laptop, has a 97% spike when fully loaded. Its not plausible.
You're right to say the reading should be "significantly lower". But I wouldn't characterize 97% as signficant, but rather, as implausible, and further confirmation of the pattern of faulty metering I discovered with the incandescent lightbulbs and transistor radio.
The radio, by the way, was recommended by APC tech support. I specify incandescent bulbs, since as you know, flourescent bulbs 'warm up' to peak draw, as the gas inside them ignites; while incandescents have a 'steady burn' on the filament.
At any rate, you are right to point out the variances in the laptop power draw. And I agree it is not a great device to use as a data point. But I did want you to know just how wildly outside the mark, the APC meter reading was, from anything that one could conceive as within the spectrum of variance.
I ran some tests on an XS 1300 version last night using an incandescent 3-way bulb:
30W - no reading
70W - 22W
100W - 51W
I definitely won't be trusting the current reading from any of these. The next step will be testing the estimated uptime to see how much it is skewed. I hold out some hope the calculation of watt usage for display is the only thing wrong, but indeed I would expect this to mean the estimated runtimes will be inflated.
30W - no reading
70W - 22W
100W - 51W
I definitely won't be trusting the current reading from any of these. The next step will be testing the estimated uptime to see how much it is skewed. I hold out some hope the calculation of watt usage for display is the only thing wrong, but indeed I would expect this to mean the estimated runtimes will be inflated.
This is not a precision device...reliable for performance in a power failure, under/over voltage (AVR) situation, noise filtering, etc. But the tests your performing are could be skewed by a number of things...
Just to name a few:
1. Accuracy/Precision is just plain off-kilter on this device or it was designed with higher loads in mind, and larger loads would give more accurate readings and especially for the Estimate Time In Minutes Screen on the LED display.
2. APC has some algorithms that play around with the actual measurements to properly compensate for the delicate nature of what is intended to be connected to this type of battery reserve.
3. It isn't a multimeter. Their may be certain thresholds that below, or above which it cannot accurately determine or even properly detect.
4. etc....
That said, my model, the Back-UPS XS 1300, which I have 4 of, do give readings that vary in how close to actual they are. I tested two of them, in a variety of conditions, and with a multimeter in-line so I could get actual values. The computer load I tested should have read 25 Watts, the display fluctuates as parts of the computer are used, i.e. Optical Drives, Variable Speed Fan spinning up/down, but it had a mean of 23. The multimeter fluctuated too. They kept very closely in sync with each other. Now go to something like a light bulb or AM/FM radio only. Multimeter measured a certain value, the UPSs' didn't register any Power consumption on the radio or 15W light bulb, then registered 60W on a 30 W light bulb...again multimeter was correct, but the UPS was wrong. It kept a 60 Watt light buld running for nearly 5 hours, even though the "Estimated Time" it gave was far lower, around 90 minutes. When you plugged in a computer load though, and it displayed an "Estimated Time," it was right on for both of the ones I tested.
Jonathan
Just to name a few:
1. Accuracy/Precision is just plain off-kilter on this device or it was designed with higher loads in mind, and larger loads would give more accurate readings and especially for the Estimate Time In Minutes Screen on the LED display.
2. APC has some algorithms that play around with the actual measurements to properly compensate for the delicate nature of what is intended to be connected to this type of battery reserve.
3. It isn't a multimeter. Their may be certain thresholds that below, or above which it cannot accurately determine or even properly detect.
4. etc....
That said, my model, the Back-UPS XS 1300, which I have 4 of, do give readings that vary in how close to actual they are. I tested two of them, in a variety of conditions, and with a multimeter in-line so I could get actual values. The computer load I tested should have read 25 Watts, the display fluctuates as parts of the computer are used, i.e. Optical Drives, Variable Speed Fan spinning up/down, but it had a mean of 23. The multimeter fluctuated too. They kept very closely in sync with each other. Now go to something like a light bulb or AM/FM radio only. Multimeter measured a certain value, the UPSs' didn't register any Power consumption on the radio or 15W light bulb, then registered 60W on a 30 W light bulb...again multimeter was correct, but the UPS was wrong. It kept a 60 Watt light buld running for nearly 5 hours, even though the "Estimated Time" it gave was far lower, around 90 minutes. When you plugged in a computer load though, and it displayed an "Estimated Time," it was right on for both of the ones I tested.
Jonathan
My mind is of the same turn as yours -- that a metering error in the measurement of watts would cause the instrument to erroneously calculate runtime. At least that seems to be common sense conclusion -- bad info in, bad info out.
Your runtime test is a great idea. I'm looking forward to learning your results.
Your runtime test is a great idea. I'm looking forward to learning your results.
Ok so I have APC XS 1300, The wonderful red glowing readout compleatly burned out! not even six months old. GREAT! NOW WHAT!
Ut reeally doesn't matter if the LCD burned out.....it's not nearly accurate anyway. lol. Though I'm sure if you complain to APC you'll be able to get a new one. If that doesn't work, try and exchange it at the point of purchase.
It's easy to test the error in the wattage guys! Simply put a 150 W bulb: it reads about 50W. Put a 50W bulb, it reads 0. Obviously below 100W the reading is not correct, right?
So, I plug 150W bulb, it reads 50W. I add another 150W bulbs, it read almost 200W. I add a 40W one, it reads 240W. I add a 30W fan, it reads 270W. Etc. Wasn't hard to see that loads below 100W or so are not measured accurately ;o)
However, there is still a slight discrepancy in the reading between online and on battery.
Also remember it outputs a stepped sine wave on battery, not true AC.
So, I plug 150W bulb, it reads 50W. I add another 150W bulbs, it read almost 200W. I add a 40W one, it reads 240W. I add a 30W fan, it reads 270W. Etc. Wasn't hard to see that loads below 100W or so are not measured accurately ;o)
However, there is still a slight discrepancy in the reading between online and on battery.
Also remember it outputs a stepped sine wave on battery, not true AC.
Isn't it obvious that your meter is reading 100watts low? Mine happens to read 30watts low for various loads.
just how bad is the load featue on the lcd? also, is there a way to keep it on always so it doesnt go off after 10 sec?
LCD Full Time Display Mode
The LCD can be set to full time display mode by performing the following steps:
1. Ensure the unit is connected to utility input power, and the power on/off switch
is turned off (no power is supplied to the output connectors).
2. Press the DISPLAY/HOLD TO MUTE pushbutton, and hold it in for 10
seconds. All five blocks in the Battery Capacity bar will flash off and on, which
indicates the unit is in pushbutton programming mode.
Note: A rotating selection method is used that allows you to step through the
display modes using the DISPLAY/HOLD TO MUTE button until you
select the display mode you want. For example, in Power Save mode
none of the blocks are lit. If all five of the blocks are lit, it indicates
the LCD is in full time mode, and will remain on full time.
3. When you rotate through the selections and reach the display mode you want,
press and release the DISPLAY/HOLD TO MUTE button to select the display
mode.
Note: If no buttons are pushed, and no operations occur for five seconds, the
unit automatically exits pushbutton programming mode.
4. Once you have selected the desired display mode, continue with normal
operations.
The LCD can be set to full time display mode by performing the following steps:
1. Ensure the unit is connected to utility input power, and the power on/off switch
is turned off (no power is supplied to the output connectors).
2. Press the DISPLAY/HOLD TO MUTE pushbutton, and hold it in for 10
seconds. All five blocks in the Battery Capacity bar will flash off and on, which
indicates the unit is in pushbutton programming mode.
Note: A rotating selection method is used that allows you to step through the
display modes using the DISPLAY/HOLD TO MUTE button until you
select the display mode you want. For example, in Power Save mode
none of the blocks are lit. If all five of the blocks are lit, it indicates
the LCD is in full time mode, and will remain on full time.
3. When you rotate through the selections and reach the display mode you want,
press and release the DISPLAY/HOLD TO MUTE button to select the display
mode.
Note: If no buttons are pushed, and no operations occur for five seconds, the
unit automatically exits pushbutton programming mode.
4. Once you have selected the desired display mode, continue with normal
operations.
You can use PowerChute to configure the UPS to be silent at all times.
I just bought out of the box an xs 1500. I plugged in the red cable to the battery, the negative was already hooked up and so was the jumper. I have no LCD display after plugging in a hardwire connection and the power button stays lit and so does the display/mute button. I can't get an lcd display and I can't seem to shut power button off....any help would be awesome and appreciated
TIV
TIV
I purchased 2 x1300's a year ago. I have not measured their accuracy, but one LCD has almost completely gone dark (it is still barely visible from one angle only).
Next time I'll buy a true sinewave UPS from another manufacturer.
Next time I'll buy a true sinewave UPS from another manufacturer.
Measuring load with light bulbs ??? Guys are you bunch of kids or just insane ? Get Fluke and do it right ! How can you even be sure that what is advertised as 100W bulb really draws 100W ??? That is not eve funny, that is just sad...
Different topic; ran into this site searching for answers; bought a bx-1300 lcd; problem is, with just my pc and monitor plugged in, usb connection to pc unplugged, the unit turns off, or removes power altogether; apc has replaced the unit, same thing; power chute shows 73 watts bein used (if accurate). Any ideas out there. Just starting to retest;
BACK-UPS XS 1500 is a total chunk of ****. Had to say that for search purposes. That being said I have even less to say. I have owned several APC products in the past and when the time came for them to perform they died after seconds not minutes. Worthless.
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In the area where I reside power fluctuations and outages are numerous, so having a UPS is crucial when doing serious computer work. When my old Belkin F6C800 unit recently died a malodorous death, I decided to return to APC. Browsing the local Best Buy
Tracked: Feb 27, 10:11